423
German Klimenko— Russia will be a good Chinese Internet
Seventy six million three hundred twenty three thousand four hundred forty nine
The owner of the portal liveinternet.ru German Klimenko
Photo: Evgeny Dudin/Kommersant
German Klimenko, one of the "founding fathers" of Runet, the owner of LiveInternet counters and MediaMetrics about how Snowden impact on Putin, why Russia is inevitable the Chinese Internet and the good life in a stall, in a radio interview "Газете.Ru".
"The whole story began with Snowden" — What to expect from the Internet this fall? All the restrictions already made, or you can wait for something else? Now the Duma is discussing the restriction of foreign participation in Russian media.
— I don't know what to think yet, but I understand why it happens.
Why?
Security. Google really knows about us very much. Suppose, there are people in our and defense of their IP, go to Google accounts. You can take IP, bind it to the account and watch the man. You even won't be, just figure out what you are working on the fifth floor of the Ministry of defence, live in Butovo, treat a mother in Israel.
This is the information that early intelligence was extracted with great difficulty. And then themselves bring on a silver platter. And the question arises: if we have nothing to protect, and Fig have with him. But the government obviously believes that he has something to protect.
The whole story began with Snowden. I said back then: as soon as Putin comes to knowing how much you can learn about a person, we immediately find ourselves behind the "curtain". That's the story that's happening now.
In General, we are not satisfied that we know something the CIA and the Pentagon, and give this information to our intelligence services?
— The CIA and the Pentagon have access to the data that our government can't have and really wants.
But why it must be applied to the freedom to receive and disseminate information?
Still, it seems to me that no one was hurt.
— Key word — yet.
I know it is a petty-bourgeois position. I do not mind the chip, forcing the immediate recall of the 37th year. I now am concerned that in a large network cafes removed from the menu the casserole with the lamb. And do me law enforcement, I don't really care. I don't have a forecast for "bad."
I understand why he wants power. Google last year granted 30 thousand requests from U.S. law enforcement, and none of our.
— And the Internet-how much and whose queries are satisfied?
— Our did not publish the data.
— That's it.
— I understand that it is cotton with one hand. And yet there was a problem with jurisdiction. Look, we have a Google, and Ukraine have "Yandex", while his Russian jurisdiction. "Yandex" in Ukraine and I as a localized partner must abide by the laws of Ukraine. What our members say: but you are a Russian company! And Google coming to Russia and operating here must abide by the laws of Russia? Such is the logic of the state.
Virtual reality gave birth to the story, when Google, Facebook, a sufficiently large volume of business in Russia, but our bodies they do not obey. Of course, these bodies are disgusting bloodsuckers. But we now not about it, and that came on someone else's territory, you must comply with the law.
"Close foreign online is five minutes hemorrhoids and all" — Then we must implement the idea of Juche — forget about the global world and to create their data centers, servers, to go to the domestic and curse Apple.
— No need to juggle. I say that the "Chinese model", ironically, the only one which will spread in the world. Europe has long been talking about a special Internet for the state, just when all the for freedom, to say it's kind of indecent.
— Why, the Germans said this just after the story of Snowden.
In the Middle ages in Europe was a process of fencing, he is now going to happen on the Internet. The Chinese version is almost inevitable. Created a virtual space, which is huge money.
The state realized that they have little control over, and who will seek to return it. You say, "Yandex". If Google wanted to take him out, "Yandex" for a long time would not exist.
— You can do it even simpler: quit Facebook, Google to write a native, homegrown.
— I think it was a bad idea of our government doing tyranny. I believe if instead of Putin, Khodorkovsky was, everything would be the same. I have watched attempts to negotiate with Google. They answer: we are unable to give anything for your query, because then you violate the laws of the United States. What follows from this? Give a simple example. I — killer, you — the customer.
— What a wonderful example...
— We have a gmail. You write to me: you need to slap Petrova. We agree amount. I slap, I get caught, I tell you that it is you, the customer, and there is evidence to gmail. The court says, but if it's a fake? Need to ask Google for verification: that iPhone 14.23 sent this letter. What Google says? "I'm not answering these questions." And you cannot be planted, because the evidence is insufficient.
Thank you very much, I'll keep that in mind.
— Imagine how the networks "lives" of killers, drug dealers, just a Scam? And this issue need to be addressed.
China has done the following: Google agrees to answer the questions — work in China, does not agree — does not work. I think we will do the same.
— When?
In a year or two or three. Perhaps in connection with the sanctions faster. In General, close foreign online is five minutes hemorrhoids and all. To take and disable the domains "com". 90 percent of users do not even notice they live in a zone "ru". Difficult to make a Firewall like the Chinese. Yes, according to some estimates, 300-500 million dollars.
— From your words it follows that the Internet is not only security, but also a lot of money.
— This is an important thing. Look, there are providers. The Internet is not just blogs and websites, it is a lot of "iron". And now the company is investing huge amount of money, and the beneficiaries become who? "Yandex", Klimenko. Mizulina in some your wonderful solution would make an exceptional list of sites to use. What happens in this case? Provider becomes a market player, the Internet turns into television format. Appear in your "home" button. The power of forms and controls public opinion, and the owner of the network becomes not Klimenko or "Yandex", and the state as "the owner of the frequency". What? Use from standing in the stable, lot: regular feeding, maybe the music is good. Capitalization will grow.
"Arkady, why do you have to Mizulina did not go?" — What a beautiful future awaits us... Say, in the last year, especially in connection with Ukraine, the impression that the Internet is filled with all sorts of bots, trolls and God knows whom. Where it crept?
Everything was just you've never seen before.
— How to distinguish simple human expression from a clever provocation?
— Look, earlier was the newspaper "Pravda", and at the door sat grandmother. And their information was very reliable in those days. We always learned, when in Moscow there was a maniac. Learned about the "cargo-200" from Afghanistan. Learned about the collapse of the escalator in the metro. Since the event was held, usually a week, but the information was accurate. Now we have this story repeated on the Internet. Added something that was not even two years ago — has formed an information network. Here there are bloggers who I trust, who have 5-6 thousand friends. If I write about ballet, I do not disperse the information all know the competence of the Klimenko — banks, Internet and media. Formed a sort of competence centers, and since factchecking on the Internet no one does, and the speed of dissemination of this information is huge, and so it goes.
Bots were always there, tweeted them, in my opinion, as much as 90 percent, although it is said that only 30. In the same Facebook, by the way, bots are not so much in "Vkontakte" not so much. The rest as they were a means of manipulation of the mind, and left.
So what you're saying — not quite the story with bots, it's the speed of information dissemination. Waves instantly diverge and explode. Pskov paratroopers, "Russian sea", killing the shooting, the death of Yanukovych.
And as an ordinary person to distinguish reliable information from unreliable? What is now in the network can be trusted?
— The answer is incredibly simple. There is such a word "learning". It's like financial literacy. 15 years ago people were sold the apartment, bought the shares MMM. Unfortunately, to teach financial literacy without MMM is impossible. Grandpa always needs to splurge. Gradually, people began to understand what a loan, compound interest.
Has the auto learning. Our nation has never been a car for the past 10 years we have killed on the roads about 30 thousand people a year is a lot. But the number of cars increases and the number of dead there! This means people learn to ride. So with the Internet. To teach democracy — is generally decades if not centuries away.
In General, one of the problems, I think, the representatives of the Internet community need to talk with the authorities. A few months ago had a meeting with Putin. I say: you should not only with Putin, we should be deputies, senators to communicate, to explain to them. Our industry has never, in fact, was not engaged in the clarification and lobbying. I Volozh said: "Arkady, why do you have to Mizulina did not go?"
Laws that descend from above, are not dogmas in the same law bloggers, I am sure, it was possible to change something, add, "come down" Volozh to Mizulina.
Plus you have to understand when there is an information war, connects psychology. When was the story with the amphora, I called one of the distinguished telenchenko. I don't normally do, you know, we're friends, children communicate, it's like the executioner asking "Hey, when you cut the head, how are you feeling?" And then I broke and called. He said, "ger, it's not for you, why are you watching this?" And I suddenly thought: but really, it's not for me. There are different technologies for different social groups.
— What this means? We're all in the madhouse are going to quarrel or finally lose our adequate perception of reality?
Remember in the 1990s was Kashpirovsky? My friend once called in the night and said: he held the scars. Well and on health. And the other one goes to the office in the cap, in the court heat. I told him jokingly, "You've escaped from the aliens?" And he said: "How do you know?" Takes off his cap, and then the foil. And he adds: "I says Gorbachev in the head..."
Imagine how many events and changes experienced by our nation over the last 25 years? For some more TV was a novelty 30 years ago. Or here in the West, pagers lived for 15 years, they're in movies, TV shows. We rushed through and immediately replaced by mobile phones. Can you imagine what the rate of change!
I have friends who are aged under 50 suddenly went into religion. People can not withstand the strain of life's media. We all pressed in life, in perception. What other countries took years, generations, we have been in two decades. And this is very difficult to be prepared.
"We read the news and make a nightmare" — Look, you told me about yourself and "Yandex", about those who are engaged in hardware and distributes buttons. And where in this story we — content producers?
— I want to please you — you were not in danger. Between us is competition. I have a service, all services the main problem is they can be repeated. Content cannot be duplicated. You will suffer a little bit from the other authors will become independent. It was usually a newspaper, and she chose journalists. And now there is a journalist, he's got five thousand likes, and he can choose where to write. That is, you become aggregators of good authors.
But your niche is hard to take. Can't repeat the "Komsomolskaya Pravda", "news", "Newspaper". If I had a certain amount of money, I would prefer to do "Yandex". Content publishing — is a different story.
— How do you see the Internet in Russia in, say, 2017? Unless, of course, it will still be...
Will the Chinese Internet. Answer me start by saying that I'm ">>". Here I argue with the daughter of his friend: "Sasha, say, for 20 years, isn't it, all your friends have a better life?" True. And I say: "Sasha, don't read Newspapers." Understand that we do not. And here we read the news, form an idea of what happens from the news cycle and we conclude: a nightmare. But if you take a normal, uninvolved person who primitively eats, sleeps, drinks, worried about what kind of pie eating, for him every year, excuse me, really is getting better and better.
And use from standing in the stable, lot: regular feeding, maybe the good music will include...
источник:gazeta.ru
Source: /users/1077
The owner of the portal liveinternet.ru German Klimenko
Photo: Evgeny Dudin/Kommersant
German Klimenko, one of the "founding fathers" of Runet, the owner of LiveInternet counters and MediaMetrics about how Snowden impact on Putin, why Russia is inevitable the Chinese Internet and the good life in a stall, in a radio interview "Газете.Ru".
"The whole story began with Snowden" — What to expect from the Internet this fall? All the restrictions already made, or you can wait for something else? Now the Duma is discussing the restriction of foreign participation in Russian media.
— I don't know what to think yet, but I understand why it happens.
Why?
Security. Google really knows about us very much. Suppose, there are people in our and defense of their IP, go to Google accounts. You can take IP, bind it to the account and watch the man. You even won't be, just figure out what you are working on the fifth floor of the Ministry of defence, live in Butovo, treat a mother in Israel.
This is the information that early intelligence was extracted with great difficulty. And then themselves bring on a silver platter. And the question arises: if we have nothing to protect, and Fig have with him. But the government obviously believes that he has something to protect.
The whole story began with Snowden. I said back then: as soon as Putin comes to knowing how much you can learn about a person, we immediately find ourselves behind the "curtain". That's the story that's happening now.
In General, we are not satisfied that we know something the CIA and the Pentagon, and give this information to our intelligence services?
— The CIA and the Pentagon have access to the data that our government can't have and really wants.
But why it must be applied to the freedom to receive and disseminate information?
Still, it seems to me that no one was hurt.
— Key word — yet.
I know it is a petty-bourgeois position. I do not mind the chip, forcing the immediate recall of the 37th year. I now am concerned that in a large network cafes removed from the menu the casserole with the lamb. And do me law enforcement, I don't really care. I don't have a forecast for "bad."
I understand why he wants power. Google last year granted 30 thousand requests from U.S. law enforcement, and none of our.
— And the Internet-how much and whose queries are satisfied?
— Our did not publish the data.
— That's it.
— I understand that it is cotton with one hand. And yet there was a problem with jurisdiction. Look, we have a Google, and Ukraine have "Yandex", while his Russian jurisdiction. "Yandex" in Ukraine and I as a localized partner must abide by the laws of Ukraine. What our members say: but you are a Russian company! And Google coming to Russia and operating here must abide by the laws of Russia? Such is the logic of the state.
Virtual reality gave birth to the story, when Google, Facebook, a sufficiently large volume of business in Russia, but our bodies they do not obey. Of course, these bodies are disgusting bloodsuckers. But we now not about it, and that came on someone else's territory, you must comply with the law.
"Close foreign online is five minutes hemorrhoids and all" — Then we must implement the idea of Juche — forget about the global world and to create their data centers, servers, to go to the domestic and curse Apple.
— No need to juggle. I say that the "Chinese model", ironically, the only one which will spread in the world. Europe has long been talking about a special Internet for the state, just when all the for freedom, to say it's kind of indecent.
— Why, the Germans said this just after the story of Snowden.
In the Middle ages in Europe was a process of fencing, he is now going to happen on the Internet. The Chinese version is almost inevitable. Created a virtual space, which is huge money.
The state realized that they have little control over, and who will seek to return it. You say, "Yandex". If Google wanted to take him out, "Yandex" for a long time would not exist.
— You can do it even simpler: quit Facebook, Google to write a native, homegrown.
— I think it was a bad idea of our government doing tyranny. I believe if instead of Putin, Khodorkovsky was, everything would be the same. I have watched attempts to negotiate with Google. They answer: we are unable to give anything for your query, because then you violate the laws of the United States. What follows from this? Give a simple example. I — killer, you — the customer.
— What a wonderful example...
— We have a gmail. You write to me: you need to slap Petrova. We agree amount. I slap, I get caught, I tell you that it is you, the customer, and there is evidence to gmail. The court says, but if it's a fake? Need to ask Google for verification: that iPhone 14.23 sent this letter. What Google says? "I'm not answering these questions." And you cannot be planted, because the evidence is insufficient.
Thank you very much, I'll keep that in mind.
— Imagine how the networks "lives" of killers, drug dealers, just a Scam? And this issue need to be addressed.
China has done the following: Google agrees to answer the questions — work in China, does not agree — does not work. I think we will do the same.
— When?
In a year or two or three. Perhaps in connection with the sanctions faster. In General, close foreign online is five minutes hemorrhoids and all. To take and disable the domains "com". 90 percent of users do not even notice they live in a zone "ru". Difficult to make a Firewall like the Chinese. Yes, according to some estimates, 300-500 million dollars.
— From your words it follows that the Internet is not only security, but also a lot of money.
— This is an important thing. Look, there are providers. The Internet is not just blogs and websites, it is a lot of "iron". And now the company is investing huge amount of money, and the beneficiaries become who? "Yandex", Klimenko. Mizulina in some your wonderful solution would make an exceptional list of sites to use. What happens in this case? Provider becomes a market player, the Internet turns into television format. Appear in your "home" button. The power of forms and controls public opinion, and the owner of the network becomes not Klimenko or "Yandex", and the state as "the owner of the frequency". What? Use from standing in the stable, lot: regular feeding, maybe the music is good. Capitalization will grow.
"Arkady, why do you have to Mizulina did not go?" — What a beautiful future awaits us... Say, in the last year, especially in connection with Ukraine, the impression that the Internet is filled with all sorts of bots, trolls and God knows whom. Where it crept?
Everything was just you've never seen before.
— How to distinguish simple human expression from a clever provocation?
— Look, earlier was the newspaper "Pravda", and at the door sat grandmother. And their information was very reliable in those days. We always learned, when in Moscow there was a maniac. Learned about the "cargo-200" from Afghanistan. Learned about the collapse of the escalator in the metro. Since the event was held, usually a week, but the information was accurate. Now we have this story repeated on the Internet. Added something that was not even two years ago — has formed an information network. Here there are bloggers who I trust, who have 5-6 thousand friends. If I write about ballet, I do not disperse the information all know the competence of the Klimenko — banks, Internet and media. Formed a sort of competence centers, and since factchecking on the Internet no one does, and the speed of dissemination of this information is huge, and so it goes.
Bots were always there, tweeted them, in my opinion, as much as 90 percent, although it is said that only 30. In the same Facebook, by the way, bots are not so much in "Vkontakte" not so much. The rest as they were a means of manipulation of the mind, and left.
So what you're saying — not quite the story with bots, it's the speed of information dissemination. Waves instantly diverge and explode. Pskov paratroopers, "Russian sea", killing the shooting, the death of Yanukovych.
And as an ordinary person to distinguish reliable information from unreliable? What is now in the network can be trusted?
— The answer is incredibly simple. There is such a word "learning". It's like financial literacy. 15 years ago people were sold the apartment, bought the shares MMM. Unfortunately, to teach financial literacy without MMM is impossible. Grandpa always needs to splurge. Gradually, people began to understand what a loan, compound interest.
Has the auto learning. Our nation has never been a car for the past 10 years we have killed on the roads about 30 thousand people a year is a lot. But the number of cars increases and the number of dead there! This means people learn to ride. So with the Internet. To teach democracy — is generally decades if not centuries away.
In General, one of the problems, I think, the representatives of the Internet community need to talk with the authorities. A few months ago had a meeting with Putin. I say: you should not only with Putin, we should be deputies, senators to communicate, to explain to them. Our industry has never, in fact, was not engaged in the clarification and lobbying. I Volozh said: "Arkady, why do you have to Mizulina did not go?"
Laws that descend from above, are not dogmas in the same law bloggers, I am sure, it was possible to change something, add, "come down" Volozh to Mizulina.
Plus you have to understand when there is an information war, connects psychology. When was the story with the amphora, I called one of the distinguished telenchenko. I don't normally do, you know, we're friends, children communicate, it's like the executioner asking "Hey, when you cut the head, how are you feeling?" And then I broke and called. He said, "ger, it's not for you, why are you watching this?" And I suddenly thought: but really, it's not for me. There are different technologies for different social groups.
— What this means? We're all in the madhouse are going to quarrel or finally lose our adequate perception of reality?
Remember in the 1990s was Kashpirovsky? My friend once called in the night and said: he held the scars. Well and on health. And the other one goes to the office in the cap, in the court heat. I told him jokingly, "You've escaped from the aliens?" And he said: "How do you know?" Takes off his cap, and then the foil. And he adds: "I says Gorbachev in the head..."
Imagine how many events and changes experienced by our nation over the last 25 years? For some more TV was a novelty 30 years ago. Or here in the West, pagers lived for 15 years, they're in movies, TV shows. We rushed through and immediately replaced by mobile phones. Can you imagine what the rate of change!
I have friends who are aged under 50 suddenly went into religion. People can not withstand the strain of life's media. We all pressed in life, in perception. What other countries took years, generations, we have been in two decades. And this is very difficult to be prepared.
"We read the news and make a nightmare" — Look, you told me about yourself and "Yandex", about those who are engaged in hardware and distributes buttons. And where in this story we — content producers?
— I want to please you — you were not in danger. Between us is competition. I have a service, all services the main problem is they can be repeated. Content cannot be duplicated. You will suffer a little bit from the other authors will become independent. It was usually a newspaper, and she chose journalists. And now there is a journalist, he's got five thousand likes, and he can choose where to write. That is, you become aggregators of good authors.
But your niche is hard to take. Can't repeat the "Komsomolskaya Pravda", "news", "Newspaper". If I had a certain amount of money, I would prefer to do "Yandex". Content publishing — is a different story.
— How do you see the Internet in Russia in, say, 2017? Unless, of course, it will still be...
Will the Chinese Internet. Answer me start by saying that I'm ">>". Here I argue with the daughter of his friend: "Sasha, say, for 20 years, isn't it, all your friends have a better life?" True. And I say: "Sasha, don't read Newspapers." Understand that we do not. And here we read the news, form an idea of what happens from the news cycle and we conclude: a nightmare. But if you take a normal, uninvolved person who primitively eats, sleeps, drinks, worried about what kind of pie eating, for him every year, excuse me, really is getting better and better.
And use from standing in the stable, lot: regular feeding, maybe the good music will include...
источник:gazeta.ru
Source: /users/1077
