Ekaterina Krongauz talked to the psychologist Ludmila Petranovskoj about the Russian patterns of education and new types of communication with children. Lyudmila Petranovskaya is the author of several books about education, and recently very popular and LJ ludmilapsyholog
— I read different books about education — about the Chinese, about the French, Spock, Winnicott, your book and simultaneously. Okay, looks like a well-trained Chinese kid, well-mannered French child. It is not clear that such well-educated Russian baby.
— Russian well-educated child is not much different from other children. Children are very different, but the moments when you know that you raised him well, quite versatile, I don't think they depend on the culture.
What is the well brought-up child?
Is a child who is in touch with themselves, with their feelings, who knows how to ask for help, able to surface social relations (colleagues, classmates, friends) and to profound long-term (best friend, girlfriend, boyfriend), is able to realize that he really needs, and to distinguish between our desires of what we want this season, to make some effort to fulfill their desires. That's all.
Eighty eight million forty three thousand seven hundred thirteen
— How to achieve this result?
— Deep experience in the protection and care that a child gets in childhood. I described the man who capable to deep relations, and autonomy. People are so constituted that they need both
— If it can be called objectively good result of education, where a number of opposite methods and philosophies of education?
— I don't think they are so much the opposite. By and large, all want more or less the same. In fact, the concept of two, right? We can try to live with the child whether for yourself or to follow the needs of the child. In archaic cultures, this question never arises. How comfortable for baby and convenience for mom. And vice versa.
With the birth of a child a woman's life virtually unchanged: the same society, the same lifestyle, the same interests, the same pleasures. She has nothing to lose. It is only when a child. And it is more convenient and more comfortable for him if he's attached to her. And it is more convenient and more comfortable for him if he sleeps with her. Brought up to a certain age — he tears of my arms and crawled. And she is not very comfortable to watch him, and it is more convenient. Evolution has tailored these programs to each other. Mankind then picked up and moved to the cities. In the city, once a woman gives birth, her life changes completely. It loses its social relations, their way of life, it is very limited in getting any pleasure. So they began to invent ways to raise a child, they are not doing.
— That is, to him were the others?
— It goes in parallel with the development of all forms of artificial borrowing child. No mothers in the archaic culture did not occur to you that the child needs to develop fine motor skills. Or led for developmental activities. He's with her all the time and hung out at the same time evolved. We had no idea that it needs to meet certain standards. This early, this late. This, this is like that. Alive and well — and well. Now it is not. The best way to sell any game — write on it "this will be myself." All the dream of parents.
So that the child is somewhere to go. On the other hand, there are requirements of the standard. The child must fit into created by someone, someone unknown, without regard to the individual characteristics of the system, to be inserted there, as the frame and liner Montessori. Not rising — blame you, blame your child. Naturally, this neurotissue. Therefore, there is a strange situation. On the one hand, there are plenty of lotions in order for the child not to have a bunch of artificial class, to engage with the child. That is, it is not seen as a time of rest with his family, but like work. Of course, if the child is perceived as work and stress, the question arises: when to rest? And then you can just relax without the baby. It turns out, children are growing all the time with the feeling that they are not good enough and do not meet some expectations.
— They tire.
By and large, that they did not exist or that they appear on click and complied with all parameters and better than superior to them.
— And well-how to do?
Yes it is good to live simply.
This new fashion that the child should take swimming lessons, dancing, English, sculpting, ceramics, design — against the fact that he just lives in the family home and make dumplings, if I sculpt them. What is better?
Partially all of these books is the way the mother to while away the days, because again, boring. Somewhere to go, to scratch languages with other moms, for others to look, itself to show. Importantly, they did not put expectations on a child. Because sometimes it just comes down to senility. Come to my foster parents, which a year and seven months. In the working alone time off work, came and said: "We have kicked off the second of the books — she did not follow the instructions of the teacher." I say you sick? It's a party — come, poulybalsya, dispelled, received social stroking and dispersed. What are the requirements? This begins when we compare different companies in the functions children. Where did the phenomenon of Chinese children? For Chinese families, the child is a project a chance to escape.
— That is madness with the children's classes early attempt to compensate for the lack of desire and time that you spend with the child? There is some practical sense in complacency?
— Then partially alert to the community that the child is not behind, and was no worse than others. And partly, Yes, peace. The tradition of normal communication with children long-interrupted — we have entire generations have been deprived of family upbringing artificially.
— In military sense?
That's my birth year of 1967 — the first year when allowed to sit with the kids at home. Prior to that, passed in a manger in two months. And in the year to give the child forced — not a good idea. In Europe, in America, this is better because they have a tradition to sit with young children. Our young mother neorganichno to be with the child. Can't she just relaxed to catch a buzz. She's stressed, doesn't know what to do with it.
— What to do with it?
Yeah it has nothing to do. Full attention need only the first week after birth, and then only if something out of the ordinary.
— So all right-so something like: keep it on hand or not to keep? To sleep with him or without him?
— Young child? How? My opinion? The right to hold, of course. And sleeping with him, without him — need to sleep a lot. In all possible combinations. Always when I can.
— Now the parents of the head artificially choose some kind of methodology. Because early education was limited to the opportunities, and now opportunities are no longer so limited, and these limitations have to be invented.
— What to do? No tradition. In the natural situation, as you do with the child that your mother used to do. Mom did her mom, and for you it's organic. They have not thought about which school to send, but now it is two years, the whole family discusses. Even nobody came to grow and grow.
— And now it is impossible not to turn your head and choose the first school?
— Do not include the head will not work, because there are socially imposed thing. It's hard not to go to the clinic. You should still have to decide about vaccinations, about the kindergarten, school and so on. So everyone chooses what is closer to him, reading books, somehow guided. In a situation of uncertainty it is important to allow yourself to choose not to be a slave stereotype. Somewhere to listen to yourself and your feelings. It is necessary to understand that attachment is a deep instinctive program, which many hundreds of thousands of years, and all this urbanization and technological progress — not even ripples, and delicate hatching on a thick layer.
— What is the main problem of modern parents, with whom do you face?
— This. In parenthood became too much of a head, and, of course, it's so draining.
— And what about modern kids?
Children, of course, feel very unsure of parents. And they have a high level of stress. So many children today neurotization and feel that they are not good enough for their parents.
— Despite the crazy changes in the country in social aspects, can anything now be called adequate parenting?
— As a species we still have not changed and have clear parameters in relation to the offspring. Giving birth to a little, rarely, hard, long wear, and the price of the child for our kind of high. This is the first. Second, we give birth the child's immature. More immature than any other in the world. Our child needs to be denounced after birth. If you do not tell the full reaction to his needs, security, care, then we will give him the best start.
— That is spoiling?
— Happy children — children efficiently spoiled. I don't mean a needy child who builds adult — like in the story "White poodle". Qualitatively a spoiled child is a child contact, it is always possible to agree, he is sensitive to the needs of others and always willing to help. It easily donates something to others, because he does not have a deficit picture of the world, he has the feeling that with him-then everything will be fine. He's just enough.
And such children we have? They grew up? Have you seen them?
— It is necessary to understand that the concept of "let two months studying alone" is built on an artificial way to force the child to stop being vulnerable. When the child cannot be secured by attachment in the psychological womb, he grows a shell synthetic. He armoraciae some feelings, some experiences, vulnerabilities and closes the bark. So technically it looks more prosperous. What can we do? We can advance him as if to instill a certain amount of suffering, so that he was less injured then the world. We are trying to artificially call it the frostbite, considering its adaptation. Then he ogrebaet from us, of this-fifth to tenth, but then suffers less from the world.
— As the Russian parents to calm down and to find those answers? Where to find them? How to decide to go out with the kid in a cafe or not to go? To get you to work or not to go?
— Well, you want to go to a cafe to go to the cafe. Do not want — do not go to cafes. You have to go to work — come out. It is not necessary, then don't. Well arranged. Children are dependent on parents. We can't protect the child from themselves. Any action will have for the child consequences. Both positive and negative. This is our cross parent. And you have to understand it. We manage their lives as we see fit, and the child will have to adapt. Our only duty as parents is to remain for the child a source of support and keep attention to his feelings. Something like that. published