Tatiana Chernigovskaya: we are Technically in the same space, but really — in different

Internal decisions must be serious— It is established that a person becomes an adult not before twenty-five years. Because if later began to grow that the age of death has moved now because don't die in 30 years, and much later, — or for some other reason?

— It is well known that different brain areas Mature at different times. The most valuable to us, the people, are front, frontal, lobe. The front part of the cortex "growing up" for the longest time, it continues to grow until 21-22 years old. The directories you can see different figures 18, 19 years — it does not matter. It is important that maturation is going on in the district for 20 years, while other parts of the brain Matures much earlier. What is this anterior? They are what makes us human. Humans are those who have a well-developed frontal lobes. For what these shares? For self-control, planning of actions, motives, in short, for functions of high rank.

Sixty six million five hundred fifty thousand three hundred sixty one

For cognitive function?

— Yes, for memory, speech, attention... as a result of the aging frontal lobes are not very good (in the elderly they start to "turn sour"), what does this mean? Not that these people don't know how to talk, and that their behavior is inappropriate and, often, uncontrollable. They speak and act according to the principle "what I see, that I sing." That is, you can not plan your behavior and your speech.

Let's say you ask them to tell you about the oak, and they are on the way to the oak — or have already passed the topic of the oak tree tell a thousand different stories that arise from what they are currently watching, or what occurred in their mental space — the fact that they remembered. They are not able to build the program behavior. First of all speech, but not only. The man goes to put tea, and on the way he sees the TV on in one room, sits down and remains there, forgetting about the kettle. It's not even that the memory of losing, and losing control over the behavior.

It may seem that I have deviated from the subject, but it isn't: I published fit. Everyone knows that older men often are any number of examples — are starting to seriously care for the ladies; not because they have "lusty", but because they lost control and don't see my real position. They believe that young pretty girls can experience genuinely interested in them and not expect soon to receive an inheritance. Remember the "Death in Venice" — there is a slightly different story, but the same inappropriate behavior. Older women, in turn, begin to use bright makeup, flaunting some bags, bows, wagging his hips in short, demonstrate the inadequacy of self-esteem and the inability to produce the correct behavior. The absence of such — like would be better to say... trouble is an indicator of adulthood.

Teenagers are out of control, so they are characterized by impulsive behavior, unexplained outbursts. They cannot even be to blame (as there is a large scientific literature), because here there is a misalignment of the maturing of the body, the hormonal pressure — and has already obtained some freedom. They can't cope with your own body and can't control themselves because their frontal lobes have not matured, they cannot perform their functions.

And if some teenager there is a period of uncontrolled, if everything goes more or less smoothly — good or bad?

— I think that this does not happen. A teenager can be crushed education, can sit obediently, "Victorian", her hands resting on the knees, but that doesn't mean that in a storm there. Remember, were the pans-pressure cookers, they still drove moonshine. There was a hole from which steam came out. If this hole is clogged, the pot explodes, and along with the house. A good metaphor for what we're talking about. If a teenager is in a situation of very strict control, without the possibility of any splash, it will end badly. At least neurosis, and even psychosis. He, I repeat, is not guilty of anything. His seething psyche needs an outlet.

Now back to our sheep. There is a view according to which the age of growing up has been postponed. Data that is received on this account the British and someone else is in fact not ripen to the expected term on these areas — do not convince me. Why? There is not sufficient reliable information. Mass brain-imaging. No such data will not. Who just climb into the machine? What for?

First, it is very expensive. Second, there is no need.

I have no doubt that they are telling the truth, but the question here is: a) statistics, b) interpretation.

That these areas "any not such" volume, you can draw only the conclusion that they "some not such" volume. More serious conclusions, especially eschatological, I would not do. There are works, which suggests that our biological ancestors, say the Neanderthal brain was larger than ours. It's true.

There is work which suggests that over the last 20 thousand years, mankind lost in the volume of the brain a lot, about tennis ball lost. Even in English literature, we read: the shrinking brain. And just go crazy comments: we become stupid, and the prospects are also relevant... It's the wrong conclusion. We may be stupid, but there is no conclusive evidence. From the fact that the brain has become smaller — even if it's true, although I repeat: there can be no statistics, neither old nor new — it should not be. They examined how many people? Chiliad? No, not even a thousand, and a maximum of a few hundred. And in very different places. And it means — different genetics, different ethnic groups. That is a different subgroup. Even if, I repeat, we will assume that the received data was credible, the conclusions may be different. Maybe shrinking brain means that we become stupider. But the opposite conclusion: it is not in volume, but in complexity of the neural network. Maybe the Lord decided to correct the matter and shrink the brain for more optimal organization of neural connections.

Of course, you have the right to ask me: "How can you prove it?". Nothing. But supporters of a different opinion it does not prove can…By the way, domesticated animals have smaller brain volume compared with wild. If this pattern is extrapolated to the homo, it is possible to make interesting conclusions…Now all say that we experience terrible stress, we are exposed to an incredible flow of information, and try to be naked in the jungle…

The stress is no less likely.

— No food, nothing at all. A thousand dangers. Who said that this stress is less than ours? When you sit on the couch, read books, push one button — turn on washing machine, other microwave oven, and so on — what brains? Brains here is absolutely not necessary. Back to the animals. Why would these domesticated pets brain? They have no competitors, worn around five people who only think what they would have to shove food taste better... they Have no purpose for which they would need your brain to use while in the wild — non-stop food gathering, defense and terrible competition.So when I hear that people do not grow up to such age due to the reduction of brain volume required, I would say, very strong evidence. Is it possible to prove that no one understands and never says that everything have some ugly and generally insane due to the fact that the evolution went the wrong way and that they have a small brain? Very difficult. There may be an inverse relationship. You know, if you read all the time magazine "Lisa" and not Sumerian manuscripts that will be the brain. Now very fashionable — not in the bad sense of the word — topic was the epigenesis: impact of what, on genes. This influence extends for generations. Life now does not require much effort… What I say applies even to people who are in a very competitive environment — in business or anywhere else, to people who work intensively.I have friends-academics — they are thirteen in a psychological sense. That does not negate their high academic and intellectual level, powerful mental and spiritual life, etc.

— There is another issue that is not reduced to some physiological indicators. We are talking about social and psychological effect of excessive comfort, too high standard of living. Children now do not have to write for them, the computer thinks, they fell literacy. No need to memorize — all you can find.

I don't want to say something meaningful about what we are all dissatisfied with the education system. However, in the world, with the exception of the brand of elite institutions, which are never enough, the education system is, by and large, the factory, where they teach the minimum set of skills, usually pragmatic. How to fill out a form, when and where to call, how to deal with taxes, etc. — tasks to generate a little bit civilized person do not put.

Everyone owns some kind of weird ecstatic delight in relation to new technologies: "Oh, don't count.". Well, it is not necessary to count, I really feel bad, and I really like it when he considers the calculator. But it's not about it goes. It's about the fact that mathematics forms the brain. When children read the digests, that says who killed whom in "Crime and punishment" — it's not even profanity. Not that I would be a snob (though I'm a snob), but I am against deception. Because they shoved this kid do a different thing. She only called the "Dostoevsky". Of course, it is possible to summarize the five pages Shakespeare. But for what purpose?

Is a pill with a taste of strawberries.

— Yeah. So, of course, Teens are very immature. They have not formed the spiritual values,because they were not as formed. They have no need to think about (sorry for the pathos), what I live for who I am. It's unclear why they would have this neural network to work. No need for her to work. Because they have intellectual cud. And the whole world is the same, and they live in this world. Although we are technically in the same space, but really — in different ways.

— And there You have the impression that the army of modern psychologists is committed in every way to reduce the maladjustment, and from this arises a sort of hyperadaptive. Everything is under control, it's convenient, but that is what makes a person and socially, and psychologically ill suited…

— Consonant. Moreover, since many of them are in chat rooms, in networks, in short, to communicate virtual, they don't actually have experience of real communication. The network you may be under a different name, you can change and fade away, become a different person — and you even never meet.

Computer games (by the way, I have never in my life did not play in any computer game) is absolutely devastating. Because there is no death, and therefore upside-down all the targets. You killed the enemy, turned off the computer, switched on — and he was alive again. Can you tell me: modern games are more perfect. But I'm talking about the General line. If they are to improve further, these computer games, we completely cover. Because then they will become like the world in General, and how to discern where you are in the real world or virtual — do not. Interactive behavior, special suits, play tactile effects — all this has long been there, hearing-vision, there is not a smell that will, it is not difficult to do. So what? This is the path to the madhouse.

Sounds apocalyptic.

— Don't still forget that we have ahead (this is the question of maturity and immaturity) switch, compared with which the late maturing is a joke. Namely, the chip in the head. It is a reality, it's not fancy. A chip that enhances your memory, increases by several times the speed of thought. There is a question of self-identity. You chip and You chip is one and the same? Artificial intelligence is coming. First things first, I don't understand why you need it. Well, if he's just a servant instead of us count on a giant database to properly to predict the weather, then I don't mind. But they say other: human repeat in silicone. This means: repeat his emotional life. Have artificial this thing will be own goals, motives, plans. And we may not be in the plans. I repeat: this is not a LEM, this is serious. This is serious and dangerous. Our hopes are that people, fortunately, is not only a computer. It has a very large sphere, which in digital world is not yet fit. Gestalten perception, all the art, creativity, science, which is not only the expense involved — that is what computers can't do. While this is all ours, we have a chance. But if the people figure out how to invest in this new Frankenstein is not only digital, component digital, and the rest close shop.

— Because thinking about it now, science fiction writers, and as you know, all that is invented fiction, you begin to think of engineers, I believe, sooner or later they'll figure something out.

Is, unfortunately, true.

Twenty four million four hundred seventy two thousand nine hundred thirty six

Then I'll formulate a terrible conclusion, and You will comment. I see a situation like that. All if to speak about the history of mankind as a whole could end badly, and here it is late maturing, we must be seen as a symptom of approaching such an outcome. The symptom is that now this hyperadaptive, or the removal of a person from the problems, began to increase.

— Yes, it's a symptom, and I believe that we are moving in a very dangerous direction, but also a challenge here. They say not to finish on a note of optimism, not apocalyptic, but it is now our responsibility as yet the highest species on this planet is very big. We have to strain — and yet to grow up early and not before the hour of death. Because the future will depend on how we behave. For example, you can give yourself a hand and stop playing computer games. Or in the genetic game. Genetics is very powerful, it makes me just a delight, but at the same time causes and terror. Let the cloning is strongly prohibited — but did something to ban in the history of mankind? You can not deny. There is always a billionaire who would buy an island, buy scientists buy all you need for these scientists, and step over bans…

— People are hooked on research, they have this causes euphoria.

Aside from cloning, it is clear that the most secret of the secret information is information about the genome. Recently my colleagues, professors-biologists from Stanford University, gave to the Christmas deciphered their genomes. It's a box about the size of a computer disk — a black box with a cipher.

I'm sure that will break in these genomes, and begin what is already written. Now it's just fried the plot, but I see no reason for a frivolous attitude towards it. Let's say you go to insure their health. And you say: why to insure you have a year and a half. To insure we will not. It is clear that I'm playing right now and especially teasing. But I see no reason why this did not happen.

It is clear that using the same screwdriver will be done and wonderful things. For example, in the genome of Petit N. there is a potential risk of Alzheimer's disease. Tighten up this thing to not have Alzheimer's. It's gorgeous. But here's the problem: both can and other things to tweak if desired. The children order — this is not a joke. The legs were six feet, eyes blue, IQ — 250, waist 30 cm…

— And are there any tactics that would allow it to adjust? Take the same growing up. We agreed that this thing is symptomatic — so it is almost inevitable, and to turn around this entire evolution is impossible?

— Biologically, you cannot deploy a evolution ago, but the responsible behavior of those who teach and those who learn and those who take decisions, has the potential to direct the course of events in the right direction.

This is already an optimistic note.

Our genes are potency. Of course it very much. Against scrap no reception. If bad genes, nothing helped. But if the genes are good, they are still not enough. Suppose you inherited a Stainway. In order to play it, you need to learn. If you lead a different life, that you have received from grandparents good genes will not play. Moreover, they will be bent. What to do now? Stop playing with toys with a cross and circle — I mean tests. To increase the volume of humanitarian education, and very dramatically. To teach people "meaningless" things. For example, Sumerian poetry. It is necessary, I would say quite rude and almost vulgar, in order to shape our brains. Here is the first paragraph. The second point we should realize our responsibility for the civilization on this planet. If are not aware of, then you can finish, the shop close.

There is one more dangerous thing, which I also say all the time. There was a fashion: "It's not me, it's my brain". In the courts in the United States. The offender said: "I Have the brain of a criminal. Is it my fault that such a brain was born? To him and claims". Understand? Is the transfer of personal responsibility on biological tissue. It's a terrible thing. If we really Uversa that all laid down, the end of everything, our civilization is just a circus of animals. So to finish, despite all the horrors of Frankenstein, I would still not without positive notes: once the time has now come — and this is indicated by different symptoms — when we have entered on a dangerous path, and our responsibility for his behavior should be much more serious. Internal decisions must be serious.

 Consonant. Moving to the level of social organization, I want to discuss another issue. The individual is too weak to make such decisions. On the other hand, they are not feasible at the level of state. Must be some kind of horizontal social movement, contributing to the increase of this internal liability. Some kind of self-organization of society…

When I went to chat with the people making serious decisions, I received an unexpected experience. There is, of course, there are not too competent, but for the most part, when you start to communicate with them directly, it turns out that they are smart, educated, want the good. It had me puzzled. If it was some monsters, the story would be simple and clear. So, maybe you're right and something must by the society to happen.

Why is it that doctors of Sciences, professors, serious people want to do something good and can not do anything? Remember, when I entered the exam, the motive was: in each village put their grades; the higher grade school, the lower the rating; and in the school of mathematics in Moscow or in our classical grammar school children will be "three", all other places will be awarded the "five-plus". So we introduce, as in all decent countries, unified state examination — to make it clear what "four". It's hard to argue with such arguments. But it turned out that? Teachers solve problems for students, massive cheating, corruption, which spread, by the way, and at a local clinic, where the issue of the certificate, that the child is not all right and we must give him a "different scale". But in itself the step was reasonable.

— Yes, logical, rational.

And something he brought. We have dramatically expanded the coverage to other regions of Russia. From the Far East not everyone will go to take the exam in Moscow very expensive. And blat used to be, on the prestigious place just did not fall. And now the applicant is sitting at home, send your scores, and send him a postcard: "You're hired". That is the situation of corruption at the level of admission to the University is missing. A range extension is evident. And it's true.

— About the exam, I would say that is a move in the right direction, but it is very bad considering the specificity of our society. It is necessary to put any additional barriers.

— Yes, something in society is wrong. But we should handle it? And here we return to the question of why there are seemingly logical mechanisms — testing of the stimulation. One grows up not only later, he grows up differently, it changed the ways of growing up, he had to adapt to the information environment, and social skills, which we associate with growing up in the tradition, coming in third place. The fact that many aspects of modern man is not even sinking, because everything is already solved and prepared for it, make the traditional social growing up with responsibility, social skills and communication especially weak strategy.Man grosso modo becomes a machine fused with her, and his manhood, is not an adaptation to social reality and adaptation to the superstructure above it — information-machine environment. published  


interviewed by Alexey Muravyev

P. S. And remember, just changing your mind - together we change the world! ©

Source: //www.strana-oz.ru/2014/5/pozdnee-vzroslenie-kak-trevozhnyy-simptom


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