The next part of our conversation with cosmonaut Pavel Vinogradov. This time, let's talk about technique:
About reusable ships and missiles. About UFOs and space debris. About the dangers in the open space. About spacesuits. About the toilet. About water. About vicious cycle and autonomy stations. About the control system of the ISS. About Orbital online. About the performance of consumer electronics in space. About the cosmic expansion. About the "Gravity" and "Interstellar". On the flight to Mars.
Meeting with Pavel Vladimirovich was due to the organizers of the festival Irkutsk robotic Robosib
. Questions asked users Learn
, Geektimes < / a> and subscribers group " Deep Space
Earlier we learned biomedical
details of life in space, and today the most extensive and interesting topic: "Technique".
A little about Paul Vladimirovich On account of Pavel Vinogradov three expeditions into space: one on "World" in 1997 was, and the two on the ISS in 2006 and 2013. In the open space astronaut worked for more than 38 hours, 7 outputs, including participation in the aftermath of столкновения ship "Progress" to the station "Mir" in 1997.
Before becoming a cosmonaut, in NGOs "Energy" Paul was engaged in automated systems and the interaction with them crews participated, including in the "Buran".
The accumulated experience and knowledge of 34 years of work Pavel Vinogradov in the space industry, are invaluable to the younger generation of space enthusiasts and anyone who decides to link their lives to the conquest of the universe.
Pro reusable ships and missiles
What is your opinion about the prospects of reusable space systems? I>
I think sooner or later we will still come to this. Maybe not now, but in ten years or twenty. It is clear that the missile technology becomes so cheap that it will be possible to shoot with both a Kalashnikov, and do not count the money. I think there are things related to reusable.
And if a subject to talk about. Kind of like PTK NP claimed as reusable, Orion and American Dragon ... i>
Yes, we do PTK NP reusable. Reusable associated primarily with thermal protection. In general, even today, our supposedly one-time "Union" - afraid to make a mistake - but the percentage of 40-45% it is reusable.
I mean, he could potentially be used for the second or already use? I>
We use multiple frames, which are quite expensive. Remove from the returning ship. Body, yes, he assumes shock and unprofitable to do reusable. But as block-board systems, electronic components, control panels. Remote astronauts we fly 5-7 times. he arrived, we checked out, download a new mathematics, put on a new ship, and he flies on. Lodgements - our seats ... The list is huge, about it, no one knows just.
It's not secret information? I>
No it's not secret information, we will send our American colleagues a list, a memorandum of reuse systems and units of the ship. They say, "Yes, we agree. Forward and with a song! "
Ie. you agree the with them ... i>
Notifies. Ship in the configuration: such a block is used for the fifth time, a certain - the seventh such a first, second ... tenth.
About the debris and UFO
pressing issues - space debris. How do you - this is a serious problem? I>
This is a problem from the point of view of safety of crews to the ISS. And, in principle, for spacecraft. We have had cases where out of order completely new geostationary satellites, which were cut down just for a split second - and all communication breaks. Evaluated the causes and came to the conclusion that it was getting some fragments. The problem is serious, there is a speed of 8 km / s, if the orbits intersect at an angle of at least 45 degrees, the total rate already 10-15 km / s. If the mass of debris program at least, there is a threat of loss of tightness station.
There is a whole system that monitors and prevents collision not only satellites, but in general all the major fragments: there and debris and stage. Promptly tracked in orbit about 16 thousand. Facilities.
Ask about UFOs, whether ... Has the see what a UFO in the form of debris or in the form of vehicles of extraterrestrial civilizations? I>
Once tried to see it, but failed. This is the "world" connected history - past us flew an American satellite, which KH-11 , died.
He whistled at us with a difference of about a mile. We were told: "You guys go away, just in case a ship, then suddenly." The orbits were strictly intersecting, he walked from north to south, and we walked across, 51 degrees, it was a polar orbit, and we naturally ... Sputnik was 12 tons, if he got in us, there would not have even a trace . When we then MCC said, "Guys, do you see anything?", We say, "Guys, our speed pole Americans, well, 12 kilometers per second, he went even two kilometers away from us ... It's not even a moment" . Satellites I watched many times, I even tried to take pictures.
Higher or lower? I>
Basically above. Especially when we go in the shade, and there are satellites that are at an altitude of 650 kilometers, and they always go in the sun. Here you can see them. Nothing like that ... Rubbish ... Well, our garbage saw when we lost output wrench or halyard, so he hangs out day, the second, third, fourth ... Because somewhere flies. Nothing had no unrecognized. So much for Extraterrestrial Intelligence ...
Aliens, in general, have not been found. I>
I think that they are not such fools to fly us to the station and looking at us. If they will be secured from somewhere, it will be noticeable, and far, far away.
About the dangers in space
What dangers lie in wait for astronauts during spacewalk? I>
Security system output - is a science. There is a special regulation, and it is very strictly enforced. Orientation our station is now supported by a so-called power gyroscopes - gyrodynes that stand in the US segment. On the "World" we, too, were such. This powerful flywheels, promoted when they have manipulated, they have an impact on the station and it is rejected. Their problem - the accumulation of angular momentum - spin at maximum speed up to a critical point where they can become unmanageable. Then we introduced the procedure "unloading gyrodynes." We must provide the station external influence, but this time start girodinchiki deploy there where necessary. This external action - the work of our rockets Russian Segment.
Now a normal spacewalk - is 6-8 hours. An hour and a half before the release, we try to carry out the procedure unloading gyrodynes, but there are times when unloading is required, and the people still in the cold. Engines on the station hydrazine - which is very toxic fuel. In any form can not be provided to the crew in the area of the engine. Therefore, either we ask the crew to leave the danger zone or advance planning output so as to prevent people from entering the danger zone.
There are very complex situation where work is required immediately in the area of propulsion systems, and around them there is even a touch of unburned or partially burned fuel. Then provides a procedure to follow closely so as not to bring on board the remains of rocket fuel components. Wipe gloves, inspect yourself to God forbid not to bring him to the station.
There are other critical moments, often associated with reversal mechanism, in particular solar cells. We have a lot of work in the area of PTZ batteries. There you can set the ban reversal batteries or carefully plan the work crew that they were not under attack. Dozens of people are working in the MCC during the exit.
An interesting technical question: in spacesuits because cooling is provided by evaporation of the water body? Ask whether there is a reaction force from the evaporator? I>
Of course not. Firstly, we have evaporator micron gaps. Evaporation of water goes inside the heat exchanger. It Turbofan: the heat exchanger is supplied with water which evaporates and cools the inner contour of the coil, wherein the moving water that cools the astronaut's body. Secondly, the evaporator cylinder, it evaporates almost in all directions, and there is some direction in which he would push.
And all the suits are cooled by evaporation? And our and American? No alternative? Now I'm trying to remember, is there any example of such evaporators in science fiction films. We show in the movie, which is enough to capture an oxygen tank and that is enough. I>
This elementary illiteracy and ignorance of physics. To cool the space can be used in the radiation type radiators as in our plant, for example. There is no evaporation is not. There is one internal circuit: hot water pipe laid in the panel, which is covered with a special coating with a specific reflectance / absorption. This type of radiation cooling, but, unfortunately, to relieve the large heat fluxes, and they are great in a suit - a man enough to give off heat - need for a huge haul radiators, a few square meters ...
More spacesuit? I>
Definitely, a lot more. We do not fit.
A high consumption of water? I>
We refueled 3, 5 liters output 8 hours. And almost a liter with little remains to complete.
About the WC
Tell us about the delicate topic of cosmic life ... i>
Any toilet business?
I always tell the children: the children, we are all the same as on Earth, only a little trickier. On Earth, everything that happens on the toilet, on transported water for a simple reason that it flows down. In space, of course it does not flow anywhere, so everything is transported by air. It is worth the fan outlet, and it all sucks, captures and it goes into the appropriate containers.
And with containers that? I>
Throw. The solid waste is collected in a container. There are rubber cups ... take it off, they slam, fall into a container and stored there. All fitting lid, ventilated, so that nothing smelled the air is filtered and returned to the atmosphere. From liquid fraction difficult. They, too, are transported by air, but there's kind of a gas-liquid medium. Therefore, a special installation called "separator-separator" which separates the liquid fraction. This is a common centrifuge drum cunning, much like on a washing machine. It rotates, pressed against the walls of the fluid, its suction pumps. Then it becomes more cunning. Indeed, any urine tends to decompose, releases the gas. We add to it a special preservative, a poisonous thing scary enough, she sealed in special cylinders. Add a little bit of a preservative and some water - diluted and we put in an airtight container. Once it is filled, we will remove and delete.
A deleted overboard? I>
In the truck. And burns. Previously on "World News" was more cunning scheme-more difficult. Because there is only accumulated such a mixture of canned, we ran it for processing. There was a plant that recycles the mixture into distilled water. 20 liters of this liquid was prepared to 800-900 grams of solid waste: mainly salt, i.e. such fractions which are inseparable. They were removed. 18-19 liters of distilled water was returned to the circulation. Now this is not. Americans two years ago launched its installation. It works for them, but to process the entire volume of waste can not.
About the water
What is the reason a waiver of such a closed loop? This squeamishness or that? I>
Decided that it is easier to carry the water. Rather intense flying cargo ships that carry water in addition to a lot of things. And the logic: if you take a bunch of other things, then why would not bring and water?
It is usually assumed that every kilogram of weight in gold, and so diligently all be saved ... i>
Well ... Here, too, saving the economy such relative, because to recycle urine, need solid enough kilowatts of electricity.
It's still electricity, rather than additional weight. I>
Energy - it's too cost. This power supply is solar batteries, they have to twist, rotate ... I mean this is not a small expenditure. Though of course, need to do a closed loop, or fills, but not as often. The Americans did not go for it because they did not want to depend on our cases. Because unfortunately, those clerks who sit and Roscosmos and NASA, they like to consider what is called a "balance of deposits," who, what, how much is invested in the ISS. Start trading, here they say you kilogrammchik us water, and we'll kilowatts of electricity ... That is, it is not technology, and politics. Though too well, I guess. Therefore, we do not force the astronauts drink the water that comes out of our SRVK of this regeneration system of urine, just pick up and drink it. Although it can safely drink without any problems. True distilled water, it is quite harmful, salt and does not make prints. Therefore, we are preparing ourselves drinking water, we have appropriate systems that of distilled water makes us normal. And at the station, there are several species of water that never mix.
It was on "World" or the ISS? I>
And "Peace" and the ISS. Because, for example, to replenish the oxygen out of the water need distilled water, or anything else in the electrolysis starts only to spoil our lives. Drink this water is harmful, so you should make it drinkable. Drinking water saturated with salts, trace elements, again for the production of oxygen just does not fit. Any process water, it can in principle be used as drinking water, but it has left the shelf life, and in general it potable, but at the time of storage is already out of range. We embarks on its technical needs. Water - this is probably the most valuable.
About the vicious cycle and autonomy
In fact, if you think about how a closed loop on the ISS? I>
I do not know ... I do not closed. We have replenish nitrogen, oxygen, and all this luck with the Earth ... It is relatively closed. It is clear that we do not inflate nitrogen station once a week. Inflate as needed, blowing a ... Oxygen is consumed by the crew, released CO2, further have the appropriate chemical processes and installations of CO2 do besides oxygen. Here is the piece can be closed. But since there is a loss, and the efficiency of these systems is not unlimited, it is clear that it is necessary to add oxygen. These are the pieces. And to say that we are absolutely vicious cycle - now there.
On the "World" isolation was higher? I>
The Above. Because it was not possible as often delivered by truck.
I do not know whether it played any role, but when the station began when astronautics turned toward the station, they also claimed as training for long-term settlement in the orbit, and initially provides the required, the need for a closed loop. I >
Yes I Am. But then we ate, all sorts of trouble. We do not very well know how to manage such objects. Manage, I mean, from the Earth. Therefore lost one "Salute", the second "Salute" ... These were mistakes ground control. Then he almost lost a couple of stations, because there were errors crews. And then the guide said: "Ale guys, stop this disgrace that more it was not." And because of this, PCO started taking the lion's share of management. That is, the control loop is now without MCC - is unrealistic at all. On the one hand for the MCC was good, a whole grew ground control system, a huge organization, dozens of organizations. Monitoring stations and processing. What is wrong with that? Certainly good. Salaries receive. Several times we raised the question of whether to return to this problem, to the autonomous flight. And now, when preparing the annual flights, we again say, "Guys, well, let's!". Not really, but as a play. Because in autonomous flight you're not going to play. Every day from the Earth to the station takes several thousand commands. And telemetry reception there at all. Americans in general is a continuous flow of information. Therefore we suggest to make such autonomy, at least for the crew. "Let's play, let accompanies PCOS, carries out the functions that the crew did not know that, and accordingly assign certain tasks to the crew as it solved itself, but MCC him spying." This is a very interesting challenge in terms of mining autonomous flight.
Yes of course!
I do not know.
I do not know. Maximum.
That's all. Nothing more.